Gail Collins: Bret, I’ve never liked Mike Pence – his extreme social values would make me dislike even if he didn’t Calling his wife “Mother.”
Bret Stephens: Well, it beats “Cousin”. Sorry, continue.
Gail: And I’ve never forgotten the moment when Lesley Stahl of “60 Minutes” asked Pence if he ever thought he could tell Donald Trump he needed to apologize for “crossing the line”. Pence just babbled and didn’t respond until Trump interrupted. “Sure. I can’t apologize,” Trump said. “But I absolutely want him in.”
But now, the worm is gone! Except I guess I shouldn’t call Pence a worm anymore.
Bret: I’m having a hard time getting into the band “Mike Pence the Hero” that some of my old friends on the right have jumped on.
Where was Pence in November when Trump started lying about the election by the time their defeat became apparent? Where was he when the president wooed the likes of Sidney Powell and John Eastman to sell crazy conspiracy theories about voting machines and absurd interpretations of the Voter Numbers Act? Where was he when he invoked the 25th Amendment after the attack on the Capitol, or at least supported impeachment? Pence is a worm that, within hours on January 6, turned into a glowing worm.
Gail: Okay, I can’t say the above.
Still, I continue to imagine what chaos the country would be in if a panicked Pence refused to tally the election results and send them back to the states instead of just certifying Joe Biden as president.
Bret: Nancy Pelosi will beat him up with her huge nose before he can.
Gail: It is an image that I intend to carry with me for a long time.
Bret: Also, can I learn a little bit about the so-called sane person’s position on all of this? They were busy trying to turn the subject to left-wing riots, as if moving a Portland courthouse, as lousy as it was somehow the equivalent of an incumbent president. inciting a violent mob to trash the Capitol to overthrow a national election.
Gail: Feel free to smoke for both of us.
Bret: OK, end of rant. What conclusions did you draw from the committee hearings on January 6?
Gail: Well, we’ve certainly been reminded that Trump was completely complicit in the January 6 attack on the Capitol.
Bret: No complicity. Guilty.
Gail: Well, thanks for the better word. And it seems that when he claimed he had won the election, he ignored almost everyone who gave him advice except Rudy Giuliani.
Well, just imagine a defiant Trump saying to his expert advisers: “It could be all your opinion – but Rudy made some very good points before he passed out. there.”
Bret: Some of our younger readers may not remember that Giuliani was Person of the Year in 2001 for his leadership role in the wake of the September 11 attacks. His fall was like a stunner. bungee jump minus the bungee.
Gail: Giuliani’s role in September 11th…is nothing like what you might imagine. For example, he wouldn’t be marching around the streets after the attack if he hadn’t moved the all-important emergency command center into the World Trade Centera well-defined terrorist target, as he wants it within walking distance of his office.
Could go on, but for me Rudy’s fall from heroic grace goes back trillions of years.
Bret: I’m starting to think you’re right. Never did the way he followed Michael Milken.
Gail: For Trump, even if there’s nothing we’ve learned at the hearings that’s already a big surprise, but it’s so important to make all of this public and share it as much as possible.
And again, I have to say: Well done, Mike Pence. You’re a terrible person, but you had a moment. If the vice president had panicked and hid in a relative’s basement when it was time to certify the election, it is impossible to imagine where we would be now.
Bret: Pass the peyote. Gail Collins has a better impression of Mike Pence than I do.
Gail: Well, I’ll give him a good day.
And what are your predictions for what happens next with Trump? Presidential election in 2024 or the run-up?
Bret: In a just world? I want a jury to convict him, another to convict him and a jailer to lock him up – to borrow a phrase.
What I don’t know is whether that’s the smart thing to do. On the other hand, prosecuting him would be a good reminder that we are a nation of laws. Otherwise, it would radicalize the right even further, making him a national martyr for about a third of the country if he goes to jail and making him a clear and present danger to everyone. else if he doesn’t. And that will be the only thing the country can talk about for many years while we have a few other issues to deal with.
What do you say?
Gail: It would be right to prosecute Trump, but you’re right – it would make him more of an object of right-wing hero worship. My real dream is to see him completely bankrupt.
Bret: Once again.
Gail: Forever is this time. First we have to get through 2024 and whatever chance he gets back in the presidency, God help us. Then all the civil lawsuits and public investigations into his business dealings in New York came to fruition – and then he went down to a basement apartment on Staten Island.
Bret: Even Staten Island doesn’t deserve it. But I doubt Trump will be convicted or fined for all his fraudulent business dealings. His crime was treason, according to the Constitution’s precise definition: waging war against the United States or abetting its enemies and providing them aid and consolation.
Gail: I agree on what he deserves, but I still worry the long and unprecedented effort to put him in jail will fail while the country is more divided.
And I want to see Trump again holding an empty cup of coffee in a corner, begging for change. Maybe not realistic, but very… sweet.
Now we should say something about Biden and the state of the economy. Feel free to let go.
Bret: Many of our readers have a fondness for Jimmy Carter as a person, but the Biden administration increasingly feels like a rerun of the Carter years, complete with stagnant inflation, an energy crisis, and Moscow. invade a neighboring country. The smartest thing Biden can do, politically and economically, is to stop blaming others – even genuine villains like Vladimir Putin – so that his administration doesn’t create an atmosphere depends on the events.
Gail: Go on.
Bret: Like I said last week, he should fire Janet Yellen, preferably this week, and replace her with Larry Summers. It will create a sense of responsibility and focus the energy on the operator, as Alexander Hamilton may have said. Working with Canada to import more oil, whether by rail or pipeline or truck: It beats bringing our oil from Venezuela. Give Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo or infrastructure director Mitch Landrieu the job of predicting and preventing shortages of consumables, from baby formula to tampons to whatever comes next.
If all of this sounds extreme, consider what would happen if we just drifted away until President DeSantis takes office in 2025. Or President Trump. But I’m always happy to know a better way.
Gail: I don’t blame Yellen for our economic mess, although I’d be sad to sacrifice her if it could help us move forward. Your other ideas don’t sound too extreme – although if we were to start shipping oil from Canada the plan would need to be aligned with the fight against global warming.
Bret: Step 1: Support the rapid transition to hybrid and electric vehicle fleets. Step 2: Build Safer next generation nuclear reactor to provide more power to the grid. Step 3: Blame Canada for any and all remaining problems.
Gail: Well, just giving you half a step towards electric cars.
Back to the economy: If Biden has any prayers for congressional support, I want him back to his original administration dream. Invest in quality childcare options to return women to the workforce and reduce labor shortages. Give middle- and lower-income workers a little cash through tax breaks. Install his program to reduce prescription drug costs. In a perfect world, fund a federal program to cut student debt.
Bret: Nice to be reminded that in some of the post-Trump universes, there’s a lot we still don’t agree on.
Gail: Of course, all of this will cost money, and that’s why we need – yes! – increased taxes on the rich. Many of them are becoming bandits in today’s economy.
Bret: Let’s fight about that later. In the meantime, our readers shouldn’t miss the wonderful “Overlooked No More” obituary by former colleague Clay Risen for William B. Gould, who in 1862 escaped slavery in North Carolina by sailing a sailboat, joined the crew of a Union blockade ship, kept meticulous diary entries, continued to prosper in Massachusetts and live to 85 years old. Next year, Dedham, Mass., will unveil a statue in his honor on the centenary of his death. A wonderful reminder of all that is worth celebrating this June 16th.
